Music – Heliotrope by Blue Dot Sessions
Dorian
Yeah, so wanna know how to make oat milk, right?
Luisa
Yeah, cause I drink a lot of it! And I’m using so many tetrapacks, and I also don’t wanna go shopping so much because of Covid.
Kate Nelson
I make all my own products, I make all my own crackers, bread, you know, milk, facial, beauty products, bath products, I make all of that!
Brooke
If you as an individual really accept the shame and blame, haven’t you bought into the plastic industry’s favorite narrative?
Stephanie Borrelle
I think it’s really critical to emphasize that we have to stop making disposable plastic products.
Anja
Welcome to Plastisphere, the podcast on plastics, people, and the planet. My name is Anja Krieger…
Brooke
…and I’m Brooke Bauman.
Waste Audit
So, let’s see what we collected in our trash bin in the past week or so.
Anja
So that’s me in July 2020.
Waste Audit
So, I want to try to see what kind of items I have and how I could reduce that.
Anja
I actually did my first waste audit last year for Plastic Free July during the pandemic. And most of our plastic trash ends up in the packaging bin.
Waste Audit
So we have several tetrapaks for oat milk which we’ve started to drink after stopping to drink cow milk…
Anja
So as you can hear, I found quite a bunch of these oat milk containers.
Waste Audit
… those are 1, 2, 3, 4…
Anja
These tetrapaks which can be composed of several layers of paper, aluminum and plastics. And they are pretty hard to separate and recycle. Only the paper is recovered in Germany.
Waste Audit
So we have 8 Tetrapak, and that’s 380 grams then. 2 cans of peeled tomatoes, 120 grams. And what else, so we have packaging bags for pasta. We have Torchiette, we have Rigatoni, Linguine! Next thing, feta cheese. Ricotta cheese. Nuts and dried fruit, rice noodles, buckwheat soba noodles. And then this was lemongrass, obviously, and then a bag of chips!
Brooke
It’s good to know that even the producer of a plastics podcast can’t resist a bag of chips.
Anja
Yeah, I mean I’m trying to resist, but it’s really hard. Especially during the pandemic! We also bought a lot more food last year, because we worked and cooked at home all the time.
Brooke
Mmmh, totally. So you had mentioned that in your waste audit, you found these tetrapaks which were made of several layers of plastics, paper and aluminum. Did you ever try to find an alternative to them?
Anja
Yeah, we tried, we looked for alternative products in the store. We got our oat milk in glass bottles, but this oat milk turned out super expensive. And I also remembered Kate Nelson who calls herself the plastic-free mermaid – she’s a big influencer on social media and I met her at a conference in Amsterdam:
Kate Nelson
I haven’t used single-use plastics for a decade. I learned about this when I was in California years ago and met Captain Charles Moore, who discovered the Great Pacific Garbage Patch. And was just shocked and horrified and thought, of all the things impacting the planet, plastic is something that I could give up to just completely eliminate my contribution to that pollution source.
Anja
And she told me about all these things she was making herself. Crackers, bread, you know, milk, facial, beauty products, bath products, she said she makes all of that. And when I got home from the conference, I checked out her YouTube and I found a recipe to make oat milk. So that’s where we got the idea that we could just make our own instead of buying it.
Brooke
That’s a great idea. I mean when you think about it, it’s mostly water!
Anja
Right!
Brooke
So you decided to refuse the packaging for this product altogether by making your own, right?
Anja
Yeah, we basically changed the process and not the material. But it was actually quite a challenge. Because my partner, Dorian, he had some expectations for this oat milk to fulfill. We have a classic Italian espresso machine at home and he really loves to drink coffee, so he needed to find a recipe for oat milk that you can foam for cappuccino.
Brooke
That’s a high bar. Did he end up finding the perfect recipe?
Anja
It got quite complex, I must say. At some point I lost track of all the things he tried. He looked at a lot of recipes online, all these tutorials, and then he started ordering tools and ingredients. So, you have to imagine, the mailman rang our bell and we got several things delivered. First a big kitchen blender, then a little hemp bag to filter the milk, then little containers with special enzymes to convert the starch in the oats into sugars…it became quite nerdy actually! But in the end, it was all worth it, because in the end, the oat milk turned out really great!
Brooke
Could you share the recipe with us?
Anja
I actually had the chance to record it. Because my friend Luisa, she got really curious about our oat milk and she asked Dorian how to make it. And then the two got together on the phone – which of course for me was a great chance to record.
Music – Heliotrope by Blue Dot Sessions
Dorian
Yeah, so you want to know how to make oat milk, right?
Luisa
Yeah, because I drink a lot of it. And I’m also really picky with my oat milk.
Dorian
Ha, okay!
Luisa
So I feel like I’ve had like bad experiences buying some that tastes either like sugar water, or just like water (laughs). And I’m using so many tetrapaks, and I also don’t want to go shopping so much because of Covid. So I figured it would be cool to try to make it myself.
Dorian
Yeah, right. So I was also trying to get rid of all the tetrapak packaging. And so yeah, and it worked. But it’s a lot of work during the week, you know. I use it for coffee all the time. So I think I drink about two liters per week.
Luisa
Wow!
Dorian
So you have to, like make it twice a week or once a week if you make two liters at once. So yeah, it’s a new chore I have to do. (Laughs)
Luisa
Okay, wait. So when you’re saying it’s a lot of work, how much work, like?
Dorian
I think in the beginning, it took me like, I don’t know, half an hour to make one liter but now I’m, I’ve practiced a lot. And so it’s a little bit faster. But yeah, it takes some time and you have to get used to it. So, yeah, sometimes when I’m tired in the evening, I know, oh, I’m running out of oat milk. Damn, I have to make more oat milk. And then it’s like, oh, no, I want to go to bed!
Luisa
(Laughs) Oh my god. Yeah, I guess you have to sort of work it in as a break. And you can listen to podcasts while making it or something.
Dorian
That’s a great idea. Yeah right!
Anja
I think I’ve actually seen Dorian do that recently, listen to podcasts while making milk in the evening. I must say I really admire his persistence doing that twice a week now. I won’t play the whole conversation because it’s long, but he explained his steps to Luisa in detail.
Luisa
Okay, so can I just summarize it back to you and you tell me if it’s correct.
Dorian
Uh huh.
Luisa
Okay, so I put basically a cup of oats with water and enzymes and let that sit for 15 minutes. Then I strain oats. I guess in just like a normal sieve or something like just a normal
Dorian
Yeah.
Luisa
Okay. And with a little bit of water to just get the enzymes off. Then I put the oats and about a liter of water, and three teaspoons of sunflower oil, and some maple syrup, and some vanilla extract all into the blender. Then I blend for 15 seconds. Then I take that mixture and strain it with a nut bag. And then I become a perfectionist (both laugh) at straining so it doesn’t end up all over my kitchen. And then, and then I just pour it into like a glass bottle. And then I have my oat milk!
Dorian
Yeah, that’s it. That’s, that’s it. I take three tablespoons of oil, not teaspoons.
Luisa
Ah, okay, okay. Tablespoons, that’s good. Yeah. Okay, that’s…
Dorian
But everything else was perfect.
Luisa
(laughs) Okay, great.
Anja
So that’s the recipe…and we’re having this milk every day now!
Brooke
Awesome. So was there anything else that you changed after your waste audit?
Anja
Yeah, we also started to make our own pasta, I got a pasta maker. As you heard, I found a lot of pasta packaging when going through our trash. So I ordered this old-fashioned looking little machine with a hand crank, and it’s really easy to make your own pasta, it’s as fast as if you make pre-made pasta. And it’s so delicious, we love to make it with fresh pesto and that’s just really delicious!
Brooke
Mmm yeah, I have a very fond memory as a kid when my family went to the beach and we laid out some pasta that we had cranked out on a broom handle across a couple of chairs, so it’s a great activity.
Anja
Nice!
Brooke
Yeah.
Anja
Yeah. I would say it was a good excuse to finally get my pasta maker.
Brooke
And I know that if you don’t want to make your own pasta there are also these supermarkets that you can go to where you can buy it unpackaged, in bulk, and you make sure to bring your own containers too.
Anja
Yeah, that’s actually something I’d like to do more in the future. We have several stores nearby where we could buy oats, nuts, pasta and many other things without the packaging, so it would be super easy to just pack the containers and go there. But I haven’t been that organized yet I must admit.
Brooke
Yes, and in my area, bulk shopping got harder because of Covid restrictions. But, during the pandemic, I also had a revelation. I realized that ice cream cones are such an outstanding model for takeout because you get to eat the vessel that your food comes in. I would love to see more innovations in takeout food that revolve around this concept.
Anja
Oh yes, that’s really cool! Basically, the cone is the packaging.
Brooke
Yes! I’ve also seen bowls made out of bread, so you can eat soup out of them, which is kind of another example of this concept. But anyways, besides home-made oat milk and pasta, what else have you got? Any other changes that you’ve made in the last year?
Anja
Yes, I have one more. We always listen to a German radio station called Cosmo in our kitchen. Because they have really great music – but they also have sustainability tips with a woman called Shia Su. Shia runs a blog called wastelandrebel which is all about simple life hacks to reduce your trash.
And so one day in the fall she shared her process of making her own laundry detergent from horse chestnuts. You find them in the fall around chestnut trees. And the special thing about them is that they contain saponin, which can act as a soap.
Brooke
That’s super cool! I would have loved to have been the person who discovered that.
Anja
Yeah, I guess we’re just rediscovering it. I think it’s empowering in a way! So you just go out in the fall and collect several cotton bags full of these beautiful chestnuts. And then I had our new blender to crush them into pieces. And I just basically let them sit in the sun for a few days. They were little crumbs, almost like a cereal or something like that. And when the crumbs were completely dry, I filled them into big mason jars. And so now, I can just use chestnut laundry detergent whenever I want. I just pour hot water over them, and then that releases the saponines, and then I sieve out the chestnut crumbs.
Brooke
Oh that’s awesome. And so what’s been the overall impact of these changes? Is your plastic packaging bin pretty much empty now?
Anja
No, of course not – we are still taking out lots of trash! Our packaging bin got a bit lighter, because the tetrapaks, they were actually pretty heavy, and they made up around 1/3 of our waste in weight. So the bin is a little lighter. But I would say for a real Zero Waste lifestyle where all your plastic trash is supposed to fit in a mason jar or that’s the aspirational goal – for that we would need to do so much more. Uhm, yeah, I mean I guess I think there are a couple of projects I would like to do next. But I also think that there’s only so much a consumer can do. As we heard, just replacing one product already requires so much research, time and money that it’s really a privilege, I guess.
Brooke
Right yeah. And in my previous podcast series “Guilty Plastics”, that was really my big question: Who is responsible for tackling plastic pollution, is it individuals, businesses or governments? And I mean if you as an individual really accept the shame and blame, haven’t you bought into the plastic industry’s favorite narrative? They promote this idea that it’s on consumers and communities to make the change – and then, while we are completely absorbed by changing our lives and finding the best recipes for oat milk, the corporations just peacefully continue to produce more plastic and make a profit off of it.
Anja
That is a very good point. Yeah, on your question of responsibility, I mean it’s tricky. But definitely I think the question is, has it really been the consumers who wanted all that packaging and all those disposable items? Was this throwaway culture we live in really just a demand that the companies fulfilled, or is it something that’s also been pushed onto the markets to make a profit? And maybe it’s a mixture of both. But I think it’s important to understand what direction we are going now. There were these two studies recently in Science magazine that looked at the future on a global scale. Like how will the plastic pollution problem develop under different assumptions.
Brooke
And what were the results?
Anja
Well, of course, these studies came up with very complex scenarios. But I think for me the bottom line was that we need to act quickly and with determination – and we need all hands on deck to solve this issue. Because if plastic production continues to grow, it will be hard to keep up with it. I had the chance to speak to the lead author of one of the studies, Dr. Stephanie Borrelle. And she and her team looked at the amount of plastics that could be entering rivers, lakes and the ocean in the coming years. They found that if we don’t take action, and if we carry on business as usual, the amount could increase significantly.
Stephanie Borrelle
It’s pretty dire, we will probably see somewhere between 30 and 90 million metric tons entering the environment every year by 2030 if we continue down the trajectory that we’re on now.
Anja
And just to put this in perspective. 90 million metric tons, so the highest estimate, that would be the same weight as about 8,900 Eiffel Towers. Which is three times as much plastic ending up in water ecosystems than the scientists estimate for today – year by year.
Brooke
That’s quite overwhelming to think about. But aren’t there plans to reduce plastic pollution now, right? The Our Ocean commitments, the G7 Plastics Charter, the UN resolutions – hopefully all these commitments would be able to change this dire path to the better, right?
Anja
Yeah, yeah, you would think so. So the business-as-usual scenario was just the worst case, assuming that all these political plans would fail. But Steph Borrelle and the other scientists also modelled what would happen if the plans succeeded. So what can we expect if current commitments to reduce plastic pollution were actually successfully implemented by all countries?
Steph Borrelle
And so we ran that scenario. And we were a little bit surprised when it came out with 20 to 53 million metric tons – given that when we applied those commitments it wasn’t just for the countries who said they were gonna do that. We actually applied them to all of the countries.
Brooke
Wow. So basically, if all goes well and every country fulfills current commitments, we will still have a huge problem on our hands…
Anja
Right, and 2030 is only 9 years away.
Stephanie Borrelle
You know, it’s not as if the world isn’t trying to act on this issue. But unfortunately, it just appears that we consume too much, we’re producing too much, what’s entering the environment, it’s just too much for the ability to manage it all.
Brooke
So if the current political commitments aren’t enough, what do we need to do? Did the researchers have an answer to that?
Anja
They tried to answer it, by making their scenarios more and more ambitious. For example, they calculated how much effort it would take to only add 8 million metric tons of plastics to water ecosystems each year by 2030. And the result was that even that will be a huge challenge. We will have to really ramp up global efforts on all levels: Waste reduction, waste management and clean-up.
Brooke
A future where “only” 8 million tons of plastics enter the waterways each year…
Anja
Right. Is that even an acceptable target that we keep adding so much? I asked Steph and she said she and her collaborators had tried to stay realistic,
Stephanie Borrelle
You can say, well we need to manage 100 percent of our waste. And obviously, that would be amazing and that’s what we should aim for. But the reality is is that, it’s impossible to get to that point within 9 years, given the current political situation around the world.
Brooke
Mmmh…But can’t we be more ambitious? What if we wanted to get down to 4 or 2 million tons of plastic going into the oceans and rivers each year? Or even to zero?
Anja
Well, Steph actually did have a few ideas beyond the scenarios. Here’s her full answer:
Stephanie Borrelle
I don’t think it’s impossible. If we have the political willpower to actually implement the things that need to happen. I think it’s really critical to emphasize that we have to stop making disposable plastic products. We have to stop putting this material in the system if it cannot be reused, if it cannot be turned into something useful that’s not going to end up as waste.
And unfortunately, the thing about plastics is that you can only recycle it so many times; it has so many chemical additives in it, which makes it really difficult to remake it into plastic food packaging without posing a health risk. We have to continue plastics in some ways or another, in medical procedures and applications it’s really important to have plastic materials that are sterile, and they have improved the lives of many, many people.
But what we modelled was the amount of waste that we’re producing. We need to think about making the people who produce plastics responsible for the waste product that they produce. So that could entail making production standards around the types of plastic materials. Instead of having a recycling symbol with 12 different numbers on it there is only 1 or 2 or 3 different numbers or three different numbers and they all have to have the capacity to be recycled. And then those producers also need help build the facilities and the infrastructure to have the material recycled and reused in a responsible way. We can’t keep dumping it in landfills. Space is already at a premium. We can’t keep shipping it to South East Asia and other poor countries to deal with because that’s just unethical, immoral and unfair.
We can limit, thinking about carbon cap and trade, limit virgin plastic production every year. You know, if you’re not allowed to make a huge amount of plastic, then you have to figure out ways to find alternatives. And I think that’s a good market driver to help shift us away from a plastics-driven economy. We also, you know…stopping subsidies for oil and gas. You know, the petrochemical sector is a part of the oil and gas industry. And they currently get subsidized heavily to be able to produce these products without internalizing the costs of environmental impacts or human health impacts and social impacts of plastic pollution.
But I also think it’s critical that we need to formalize clean-up. There’s already a lot of plastic in the environment, there is going to be a lot more plastic in the environment over the next couple of years until we can actually get production standards and limits on plastic manufacturing. So we need to have systematic and formalized cleanups that get the big pieces of plastic out of the environment, before they become microplastics and cause other issues for wildlife and for people.
Brooke
Wow, that sounds like a revolution on all levels!
Anja
Yes, that’s a huge transformation she’s describing there. And it needs to start now and on all levels. So I guess trying to reduce your plastic footprint at home is a good first step, but we also need to rally for stronger policies, international coordination – holding producers accountable.
Theme music fades in – Plink by Dorian Roy
Brooke
This was the Plastisphere with Anja Krieger and Brooke Bauman. Huge thanks to Stephanie Borrelle, Kate Nelson, Shia Su and Dorian, Luisa and Lisa Bryan for the recipe for oat milk. If you’d like to make your own barista oat milk, check out the bonus track to this episode.
Anja
Now that we shared our recipes, we’re also really curious about your hacks to tackle plastic pollution, so send us your favorite ones! If we get enough submissions, we might publish them on the Plastisphere feed.
Brooke
Yes, we’d love to hear your ideas from zero waste to collective action! Just find a quiet place and start the voice memo app on your smartphone. Record a voice message for us and send it to Anja via e-mail. She’s anja at plastisphere dot earth. That’s a-n-j-a-at-plastisphere-dot-earth.
Anja
You can also find me as @PlastispherePod on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. The music in this episode was composed by Dorian Roy and Blue Dot Sessions. That’s it. Thank you Brooke!
Brooke
Yes, thanks Anja. And to our listeners, thank you for joining us. Take care everyone!
Anja
Take care, bye-bye.